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Episode 6 · 2 years ago

The Proverbs 31 one

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Listen in as Laetitia, Bek and Anna discuss the complexities of the problematic Proverbs 31. With humour, sass and personal anecdotes they address what this means for them before and after deconstruction.

Hi and welcome to please stop podcast while we engage in a holistic critique of the Christian culture that we grew up with through the lands of pop culture and media with Hima, hopefully honestly and thought provoking discussion. I has with me, as usual, Anna and back him. And tonight we are going to analyze the infamous proverbs thirty one. Anna, would you like to read out the palm sure proverbs thirty one, ten to thirty one from the King James Version? Who can find a virtuous woman for her price is far above rubies? The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life. She seeketh wool and flax and worketh willingly with her hands. She is like the merchant's ships. She bringeth her food from afar. She riseth also while it is yet night and giveth meat to her household and a portion to her maidens. She considereth a field and buyeth it fruit of her hands. She planteth a vineyard. She girdeth her loins with strength and strengthened arms. She perceiveth that her merchandise is good. Her Candle Goeth not out by night. She Laith her hands to the spindle and her hands hold the distaff. She stretcheth out her hand to the poor. Yay, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. She is not afraid of the snow, for her household, for all her household, are clothed with scarlet. She maketh herself coverings of tapestry. Her clothing is silk and purple. Her husband is known in the gates when he sitteth among the elders of the land. She maketh fine linen and Selleth it and Delivereth girdless unto the merchant. Strength and honor are her clothing, and she shall rejoice in time to come. She openeth her mouth with wisdom, and in her tongue is the law of kindness. She looketh well to the ways of her household and Eteth not the bread of idleness. Her children are rise up and call her blessed. Her husband also, and he praiseth her. Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. Favor is deceitful and beauty is vain, but a woman that Feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. Give her the fruit of her hands and let her own works praise her in the gates. So from the research that I did I found lots of conflicting...

...evidence. But basically proverbs three thousand, one hundred and ten to thirty one was potentially added on after the fact, so not necessarily written at the same time as the rest of the book of proverbs. In fact, it's possible that they were all collation eated from various times. While it is assumed that Solomon was the author, there's actually no proof of that either. Solomon died nine hundred and twenty BC, which is about the eleventh century, but proverbs was potentially not finalized until the fifth century, so possibly rewritten or collated or scribed down as a whole, or whatever that looks like. But they're thinking that that wasn't done until fifth century. Yeah, BC. The poems and acrossic poem, each verse beginning with a consecutive letter of the Hebrew Alphabet, and this is thought to be easier to organize the thoughts and to memorize the proverb as well. It is said that it was a mother giving a list of what to look for in a wife to her son. So I spoken by a woman to a man rather than written to a woman. Yeah, it really sounds like it was written by a woman. I mean it's definitely edited by a man. Yeah, absolutely. I did a bit of research myself and I found something at Rachel held Evans talked about. She was a really great Christian. Rather that she said that with her research from a book called a year, a biblical woman who had really her Jewish friend. She found out that and their culture it's not the women who memorize problems dirty one, but the men. So they memorize it as a saw, a praise to women. So they're wise their daughters, their mothers and friends. Her friend in particular, her husband sang it to her every Shabbos meal, which I think is really quite beautiful. It's really interesting with the cultural difference. So this was the Jewish tech, yeah, before the Christians appropriated it. So I do only instructive language in the poem. It's directed at the male audience, just prior to her for all her hands have done. And yet many Christians interpret this passage prescriptively. Yeah, makes sense as a command to women rather than an old to women. I mean just my immediate reaction to it is I'm tired. Yeah, looking at I mean, and I know you said it wasn't written to be prescriptive, but that's not necessarily what people take from it because if you look at Christianity in general, we don't do a whole lot of digging into the background, the context and the Jewish culture and all that sort of stuff, the relevance of versus at the time that they were written. And so a lot of women look at it and what they see is just like this this challenge or like a standard that they're never going to be able to reach. Or maybe like who gets up before the Dawn and keeps the candle burning? The candle never goes out. That's literally burning the candle at both ends and that's not healthy. That's called burnout. That's burnout. Yeah, it just it just sounds really tiring to me. And also, where is the proverbs thirty one man? Where's a man of noble characters? I didn't get yeah, where's the monk? I think that's an interesting point. That because our what we were trying to before stink about another passage that had instructions for men and the shame way? Yeah, probably, or even if it's not an instruction, then a way that a woman...

...can look at her man and be like Hey, a man of noble character. Where can one be found? Oh, yeah, front of me, here are his attributes. What we are meant to take from that is it's written in a patriarch system, patriarchal time, where the men did the seeking of the women and the women did everything else, because that's what it looks according to the if she yeah, they're buying the fields with where's the man? anyways? He's probably busy too, but I just seems like a lot, even if it's a like a poem to sing to you girlfriend, I'm sorry, your wife. Yeah, it's seems like a lot. So in an article by Liz won on Christ and Pop culturecom addressing the proverbs thirty one woman, she says that it seems like a frustrating standard to try to live up to, to attain a perfect image of a social construct. No woman is happy trying to fit herself into a mass produced image, because we have flawed and real human beings with our own individual sets of strengths and weaknesses. The Bible shows us clearly through Old Testament stories, and I thought this was interesting because she gives a couple of examples on women in the Bible who were not perfect role models and though we should seek to emulate some of their strengths, we are worn through their lives to avoid their weaknesses as well. So just remember that these are women who have weaknesses and are not perfect role models. Here are her examples. Number One, Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife and offered her sexual services to the king in Genesis Twenty. I'm pretty sure that wasn't Sarah's choice. I'm pretty sure that it was Abraham. So how is that Sarah's weakness? And her second example is esther joined the king's Harem. Once again, that wasn't really her choice and that's ridiculous. It's not a weakness. Rebecca favored her youngest son, Jacob, leading her to deceive a husband Sir Jacob could get the birthright. That's a result of a patriarchal system going hey, you're the eldest, you get the inheritance, even if you're not entirely deserving of it. She was just working with what she had to try and get the right inheritance to the right person. Under a flawed system. That's not a weakness, that's a drink. These women are complex and well rounded, real and flawed. Those aren't flaws. So if you can't live up to being a proverbs thirty one wife, that's okay, because women in the Bible were flowed to. However, the flaws that she's cited as examples aren't flaws. So, yeah, they were circumstantial. There were things that they essentially had no control over. HMM, and I'm sure they all were flawed, but those are not their flaws. Yeah, so I think she's missing the point of why the PROBS thirty one woman is frustrating because it's unattainable if you look at it like it's a blueprint. Yeah, so, you know, like with sin, how they talk about dying pool talks about dying to self and being perfect. No one can be perfect. You can't live sinlessly, right, but there's that tension. So God tells us not to Sind we sin and it's in that tension of trying to be better. That's what it's about. Yeah, the struggle to be good and the repentance in the closeness to God that it brings you. Is that the kind of tend is that the same sort of thing that this poem is, because it's like this unattainable thing that this man is out looking for. So is it living in that tension of trying to be that woman? Is that what we're supposed to take away from this as a woman reader? I mean, if we look at it in the Jewish context, then no, it's not that tension. It's not for us to strive towards. It's a song of praise to women or a poem of thanks to women, and there are lots of those throughout the Bible. So it makes sense. When I say lots of those, I don't mean lots of songs to women, but there's lots of songs of praise and songs of gratefulness. And when something amazing happens, like Mary has a song in the scriptures and Miriam has a song and...

...so amazing things happen and then they give this song of praise or this poem or it makes sense that it's kind of along those lines. So then why do so many modern day readers go hey, that means that I should go on a diet, because we live in a patriarchal society all the people that did the interpretations of these Bible of the Bible in you know, different versions, were men. They are going to interpret it in a way that leans towards the masculine, particularly in the Times that they were written. You know, the King James version that was written in a time where women were still very much a commodity rather than people. I think that kind of feeds into our culture now, where we look at the Bible a script that we need to follow rather than an ancient collection of writing. I think a script is Asia to instructed. Thank you. HMM. CIT doesn't that come down to the leaders and then parts of wisdom and the teachers in the Christian faith to study and then explain to their congregation Bible Studies and whatnot? Why is it that the overall message now, in two thousand and twenty is still this is what you should be doing. Like I just read a blog post by this woman who's like, Oh, this is about me looking after my children. Thank you God. I mean from my experience it's because people going to these colleges and they're learning from ancient theologians that were living in a time where thinking like that made sense. And although we're now in two thousand and twenty, where women are people, there's still an element where the church leaders are majority male, Bible college lecturers a majority male and the Bible is written, yeah, by men, for men, for men. Put all that together and it's not a system that women easily fit into and it's not a system that's going to favor women. Well, it makes sense that people just kind of follow what's gone before. I would like to know the shift and thoughts from Judaism to Christianity, because Judaism is actually quite a matriarchal sciite system. The child follows the lineage of the mother wh it comes to religion. In terms of equality, I mean in that ancient system wasn't perfect, but but there was more of an equality between a man and the woman. They do believe that men and women had different roles, but they didn't think that there were any sort of least lastness to go with that. For example, women were able to inherit property, interesting things like that. And then you have the shift with Christ coming down and and then that other branch from Judaism, and then from that it became, why, more patriarchal, like Christianity is a patriarchy and I've never been able to understand or resolve the difference between the original faith system and what Christianity has done. I don't understand why there's a giant shift. It's cultural predominantly, in terms of the way that culture went. With Christianity, it was very much a political thing. Catholicism was incredibly political and was used to gain power and and then, yeah, you go from there and the split of the Catholic and Protestant Churches, and it was all...

...wrapped up in the political lature. was less about actual belief to some degree, and more about controlling. Yeah, the masses. Yeah, and also regular people didn't have access to the Bible. No, that's right, printing press, until the printing press, and and that's that's why they started the reformation. Si shaded so well. It's because of the printing pression. But again, Christians aren't torch to really do their research and think like the Jewish. Thanks children taught from being very little to memorize and to to look over there. Yeah, how they have the Barmtch version and all that sort of thing. And I was Christianity either. Is My academic yeah, questioning. Wait, Christians don't question. Yeah, I was literally talking about this with a customer this morning because I stupidly said I was recording a podcast tonight as a list of all these things I was doing today, because, oh, what's it about? So then I had to tell him, and I know he and you I know he's a Muslim. I told him briefly what the podcast was about. This guy just kind of explain what it was like growing up fundamental and slowly got into it. Was Christian, fundamental. Oh, I grew up missionary. Oh, I grew up in India. And it just kept going and he was really interested, kept asking questions and he was like talking about how he's been to university, he was raised Muslim and he still is Muslim, but he looks at the Scripture and he's like, yeah, these are the Quran. They say it's the word of God, but it was written by a man and there are things in there that I can't reconcile with critical thinking. I've been to university, I I've got a science degree. I I really struggle with that kind of thing. I still want to be a good person. How do you go with the Bible? And I'm like, well, I don't even know if I'm still a Christian, I kind of believe in other things. And it was really cool because he just out of the blue was like yeah, you know, Jadaism, Islam, Christianity, Catholicism all got their roots in the same like Abrahamic faith. And he even mentioned the Ishmael thing. He was like yeah, Ishmael was our forefather and was yours. Yeah, and I just thought it was really interesting, but I don't remember what my point was what we talked about. It so cool, right, intellectual, and so he's a person who was raised in this culture and religion and is now thinking for himself and struggling with the same sort of thing that I'm sure a lot of us are struggle with when we look at the stuff we were raised to believe with a critical eye. It's just that when you're raised with the same message beaten into you, whether it's subtly in culture around you or whether it's literally in Bible versus preached over you and prayed over you, it's really hard to distinguish what's real and what's made up, like what is culture telling you something and what is not true, like whether what is real truth. So I find it hard, especially with the whole people hating on feminists to talk about women, because it was beaten into me that women should be silent and submissive and docile and but at the same time hard working and speaking up for themselves. And it's just this mixed messaging. Throwing a little probabs thirty one, throwing a little helpmate, throwing a little bit of the world, telling you you also have to be super attractive and but not too attractive. Skirt shouldn't be too high, should be too low, because you know you don want to be a Slat, but you don't want to be a prude. Also telling you save yourself marriage. Also telling you don't date because dating is a sin. Kissing Goodbye, courtship is the way to go. Thanks, Josh. What's a face? Just Josh Harris? Also, at the same time telling men different messages. So it's just really confusing to grow up a woman, especially in the...

...church. The thing is it's okay for us to be a little bit peeved off by this particular verse in the Bible, not because of the verse itself, necessarily, but because of the way that it's used, and it is used against women. It's not used to support women and to lift them up. It's used to say you're not achieving what we're expected. Like we've said before, is used as a blueprint rather than praise or affirmation. Yeah, now that all of us think a little bit more critically and are willing to push back on what we were bought up believing, we can actually look at it and go no, I don't, I don't want to hold on to that as an expectation for myself. I want better things for my life, more freedom, more self love, more self acceptance. Basically the ancient version of this last love. Oh, I don't want to laugh and well, but it is. They has become the pain trist Christian lady. Yeah, rank, yeah, so totally. I googled proverbs thirty one wife and there was so many books and devotionals and poems a virtuous woman. Dot Org proverbs thirty one. Dot Org proverbs thirty one woman. Dot Org a proverbs thirty one wifecom proverbs thirty one woman, Dot blog, spotcom and here are some of the articles. Frequently ask questions about the Kido Diet and the proverbs thirty one woman. How does it? A dicto Diet, God's Fruit Diet? Put an endo ocean eating probabs action to this fruit dish. I can. I'm to start a new diet. Proverbs thirty one ministries, and they are in this one. They have food for thought, a spiritual diet where each of those things stand for something. Discipline, intentional, earnest and trusting. Yeah, the creation diet. Day thirty nine. A virtuous woman, probabs thirty one ministry. What is the obsession with that? Where charming looks a fleeting, but a will move fears. The Lord is diamonds are forever. What if my talking about? Yeah, I know, I get what you're shaying. Fell Shay. Does there ISS AH? That looks as fleeting, and yet how can she there? Driven capitalistic? It's this conjunction, intersectionality in consumerism. Do you think it's the fact that it's that's striving for perfection? So although we meant to resh in at least once a week as a dear pets for water, you're so long stress in the Lord, but at least once a week. But maybe that's only for the men. Well, because when do you rest if you're up all night by candle light doing your crust stitch? Sorry, I kind of Andrew up before the morning light. What if it's summer time? The Sun rises it fucking thirty in the morning. What are you supposed to get up at five every single day? You're screwed. Yeah, a proverb thirty one woman. You are confident, immaculate, you are capable, you are intelligent, you are heaven sin. So Virtue's such a remarkable, incredible example of how a woman should be, so godly. That's the most beautiful thing about her. She's unaffected by the negativity in the fossil opinions people have about her. She just lives. She's not focused on the wrist. She's working a beat of best. It's a pass...

...the test. There's no proof that Solomon was the author, but I want to talk a little bit about Solomon. This guy apparently had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. WHOA so I did a little bit of math. Mat's not my strongest so so I maybe a little bit wrong here, but approximately, if Solomon was to sleep with one wife Concubine every day, it would take roughly two years and eight months to get through them all. But that's assuming he had no brakes. So you know, every single day for two years and eight months he is having sex. And then my other thought was what about stds? Like they must have been riddled with them, because technically they wouldn't have been sleeping with anyone else. Supposedly should. He's the only one out doing it all the den if he. Yeah, but if he got one from sticking his spoon in some nasty can for nasty, and I meant that in terms of stds, not in terms of or a short UN cheating his blade, plunging it into the heart of hearts. Moving past the potential stds, how many kids would he have had? If you've got a thousand women that you're sleeping with, you would say you'd at least have a thousand kids, potentially as long as he slept with them all more than once. But either way, like the Bible, doesn't state how many kids he had, but I imagine it was a lot. Imagine having to house them all like that's a small village. So Solomon asked for wisdom. Right, he was not a smart man. Well, the want of the ancient first control, such as honey. Okay, sheiently and all show Bung to as a former showed from kind see and interesting. What was it like? But what they have wanted? Birth control, because wouldn't he have wanted as many offspring as possible? Well, like, it's still Old Testament, right. And what was Tamar? Tamar and her first husband or second husband? The second husband, he spilled his seed. Yeah, and that's why I mass musturbating is wrong. Don't even get me started on that. Oh, Hey, this guy raped you, your father, you had to sleep with your Fatherin Law to get to get what you are owed, and now he's going to have you killed because you're pregnant with somebody's kid. So Oh, that's okay, now you can go live with him. I mean, I know he never touched her after that, but also like fun. Yeah, yeah, twisted that ASS, Tamar. But like, what you got to do, man, what you got to do, sir. So, birth control. I think you'd want to have as many kids as possible. Does it say in the Bible how many kids Solomon had? No, yeah, doesn't bomb. Didn't heat. That was his kid. And Yeah, them split, pretty much the only child of his that is mentioned. Damn. But yeah, he would have had heaps. There's no way he had a thousand women. He was sleeping with and only one child. So, yeah, that is my rant about how Solomon is a slut. Can I need to do some kind of game of throne thing, but with Sloman Harem? Oh, yeah, hey, big shining stuff wasn't happening. Oh, I reckon. There were relationships all over the place. The Hashel, then that sweet young one that was being loves with a UNICH. There would have been a unuch, Yep, yeah, Yep, yeah, you know what?...

There was? Probably there would have been children of Solomon, if that more old enough. Did date living with rory. Suddenly this like maternal instinct came out of me and this homemaker that I didn't know I had like inside me. All of a sudden I wanted to cook many meals for my loved one and I wanted to nest and create a home and fill it with plants and bake bread and so, literally, two days ago, his mom gave me a sewing machine. I mean, I meant. I mentioned that I darned my own socks, and so she gave me a sewing machine. You've done socks. Why? That will who? Well, who wants to buy stuff? I candle light you just shut up. I can't. I did make a candle a week ago for my sister's birthday. It's lavender. Has Actually lavender flowers and anyways a petals. Yet I can't even sew a button. So I am impressed by your darning socks. So this, this, this so machine is really old and didn't come with an instruction manual. So I spent like several hours looking up tutorials and trying to work out how to use this thing, and I figured it out and I'm very impressed with myself. But also I was like, why do I want to do this? Why do I want to him cut and him this work shirt that I have, because I know look cute if I do that. What is this instinct in me to look after my man's and at the same time, Roy's very like equalitary, Egalitarian, is at the words. Feel like we both do fifty. So he very much is like, let's do it like a spreadsheet and I'll do meals and these days. You do meals on these days, and I often just trump that because it comes naturally to me because I'm a very good organizer. I'm, I'm I know had to cook well, and he's okay, so, but so he said no, I want to do it fifty. So, you know, build resentment without realizing it. And I was like no when happened. And guess what, I resent him, or I did after a little while, because I'm like, Oh, you do some work too, but he offered to. So that was just interesting to me that that happened. I guess probably what you will bought up with the expectations some of that proverbs thirty one stuff that just kind of sits under the foundation of Christianity for women to some degree. But I also enjoy it to a degree. Yeah, yeah, and that's okay to yeah, and I like that. I enjoy it. I just the feminist to me is like why, ha ha, yeah, yeah, the feminism much about the choice to do it right. Yeah, and so rory going, let's share it. Yeah, is is that choice? That then I can be like yeah, no, I don't want to do it all. Yeah, Yeah, interesting, and I don't want children. And now it is. He so what does that make me if I'm not a mother? And looking at the wife of noble character, it's like, Oh, this millennial obsession with baking bread and sewing our own clothes. They're not feminine things, though they're just things. It's just that we've assigned roles, yeah, to those things and how we how we value those things, we quantify them, is more feminine because they're in the kitchen. They're quite manual, though, they quite handson and labor intensive and women used to work out in the fields. And so is it my natural inclination to one is so my own clothes or darn, my own socks, out of creativity, or is necessity? Why doesn't rory have the same inclination? But he does. He does have like creative inclinations,...

...just in typically manly areas. Like he tinkers with stuff like computer bits and oscilloscope that he found out of like a vintage. It's I don't care about that. But is that his like literal baseline natural instinct as just rory, or is it his cultural context causing him to lean towards more masculine things like interesting? So yeah, that will that dives into the whole we were speaking before about the Enneagram show. The ANAGRAM is basically a system of personality typing that describes patterns and people, and so for me, my anniagram is either to and a for show the tos, the helper and the for he the individual, and I think that you would be very amused by this, Rebecca, because the failings of a for WHO's a can be very melancholy. Shelf. It's shelf indulgent and fellow shelf pity. And I read that and I was like, I'm not going to tell back, but and I have on the podcast. So there you got a hundred percent ish hundred percent. So what are your anagrams? So did mine literally yesterday, and I'm a three wing to. That means that I'm a three, kind of leaning towards a to more than four, which is the two side. Watch a three. Basically, I think it's either the performer or the achiever. Performer, performer. I've been dancing monkey off, like I worry about what people think of me, so I work hard to gain affirmation through my deeds. Also, I like lists and being organized and image focused and what else I can't remember. I all remember all the bad things. Yeah, I work really I like. Yeah, I work hard to get people to like me. Yeah, and I feel best when I'm productive. Yeah, if anyone knows me, love a good spreadsheet. So I'm type six, which is the loyalist. That's that. They say that when threes are at the healthiest, they're like a really healthy six. So you are what I strive to be on a when I am in a place of stress, I'm a three. That's me. So the loyalist is the committed, security oriented type, engaging, responsible, anxious and suspicious, which is me, excellent soul. I find interesting is that, well, all three of us has identified, whether it be our main one, to me, a true, or whether it's been a wing one for you too, being a true. So the true is the helper, and the helper is categorized for carrying into personal generous, demonstrative people, pleasing, that hurts. Yeah, and possessive. Yeah, so the type too, in brief, the empathetic, sincere and warm hearted. They are friendly, generous and self sacrificing. They are well meaning and driven to be close to others, but I can slip into doing things for others in order to be needed. They typically have problems with possessiveness and was acknowledging their own needs at their death. They are unselfish and autruistic. They have unconditional love for others, which really interesting that all three of us have an aspect of that and I have heard before that Christian women in particular has at least either they are or tree order to have the wing of the true which, when you look at proverb thirty one, she's a too. Yeah, do you know much about that word? Either or as a and connector?...

No, I do not. So the Lord God said is not good for the man to be alone. I'll make him a helper fit for him. It's not good that helper. So they the woman, before sin enter the world, was created to be a helper for the man. But in the Hebrew are the word translated as helper or help meet or help mete? The Hebrew words either and connector. I'm definitely massacring those is. If we break those words down, the word he's is found twenty one times in the Old Testament and only two of those times have anything to do with women. Those are both in the creation story. Three times this word is used to describe Israel's allies in battle and sixteen times it's used of God as a helper to Israel. Each time the word is used for either Israel's allies or for God, it's in a military context. Carolyn coustis James, author of half the Church puts it, God is his people's Helper, defender, deliver a sword and shield. He is better than chariots and horses, yea, Yada, Yadda. So, based on the old testaments consistent usage of this term, it's only makes sense to conclude that God created the woman to be a warrior. CONNECTO, the other word, literally means and Hebrew as in front of him. An easier way of putting that is of the same nature or mirrored. So Rachel held Evans says everything about that. This descriptor implies mutuality and harmony, and it provides us with a lovely glimpse of what a similars relationship between a man and a woman might look like. The picture of a true partnership, so beautiful. So when you put the words EASA and connecto together, it means something along the lines of a warrior, helper of the same nature or a co warrior, and I think that's so much better translation than helpmate. That is so cool. Yeah, I love it. The possible seed, invisible, brow, brow white, the power Wa tostachable, break unbreakable bow. Wow, why? The Power Wa power to the peaks, Power Porter, thin field recipes. Okay, here I'll read you a little bit. So one of the theories of why what's so good about men muscle power? Most common theory points to the fact that men are stronger than women and that they have used their greater physical power to force women into submission. A more subtle version of this claim argues that their strength allows men to monopolize tasks demand hard manual labors such as plowing and harvesting. This gives them control of food production, which in turn translates into political cloud. There are two problems with this emphasis on muscle power. First, the statement that men are stronger than women is true only an average and only with regard to certain types of strength. Women are generally more resistant to hunger, disease and fatigue than men. There are many women who can run faster and lift heavier weights than many men. Furthermore, and most problematic for this theory, women have, throughout history been excluded mainly from jobs that require little physical effort, such as the priesthood, law and politics, while engaging in hard manual labor in the fields, in crafts and in the house stools. So try if social power were divided into recrelation to physical strength or stamina, women should have got far more of it. Even more importantly, there simply is no direct relation between physical strength and social power among human and people in their s usually exercise power over people in their twenties, even though twenty somethings are much stronger than the elders. That's actually amazing, really cool. In fact, human history shows that there is often an inverse relation between physical prowess and social power. In most societies, it's a lower class you do the manual labor. This may reflect homer sapience position in the food chain. If all they counted were rare physical abilities. sapients that have found themselves on a middle wrong of the ladder, but they're mental and social skills place them at the top. It is only natural, therefore, that the chain of power within the species will also be determined by mental and social abilities rather than brute force. Consequently,...

...it sounds improbable that the most influential and most stables social hierarchy in history is founded on men's ability physically to course women. So they're saying that women are physically stronger than men, and it wasn't because of that theory that the Patriarchy exists. There sometimes that's something else. So there's a couple of theories, but that was that's one of the generally accepted. Yeah, people like Oh men are stronger than yeah, yeah, like vorries. So weak have you is pain tolerance? Yeah, have you heard of a woman giving birth, like like when, like all women in blood, like we see every month? Sorry, yeah, we do. Yeah, and we do endure a lot more pain and can handle a lot more fatigue. So women carrying a heat, buckets of water. Yeah, yeah, you India, women carrying bricks on their heads to it at construction sites in the Sorris. HMM. I mean the men are too well doing other things, but, like, we are quite care we these hips mostly. Yeah. Yeah, and being able to handle pain is a big one. Possible. So what do we take from what we've shared? What? How do you feel now about proverbs, dirty one? I'm still mad, but I'm a little more at ease with it. Back earlier we were talking about critical thinking and understanding the context. Tish, I had no idea about it being a poem to praise women. I guess kind of like that Jewish men would sing to their wives. That's really quite beautiful. MMM. Yeah, and you know, when you love someone and you see them in rose color glad through rose clout colored glasses and you just you think they're the most beautiful person and everything they do like the sunshines out there ass. Well, that's kind of like what that looks. Yeah, like to me. It's like, I see you this way, I'm going to tell you that you are the best version of a woman, and that's kind of cool. I like that, because that can I understand that. What I don't understand is it being prescriptive and a standard for women, because Jesus didn't talk about that. Yeah, I think I agree. I like thinking about it as an accolade for women. The current Tape Evangelical Christians have on proverbs thirty one, diets and striving for perfection and yeah, please stop. I feel more at peaceful with it now that I look at the cultural context and the historical context of it. When I first when we first decided that we were going to do proverbs thirty one, my mind straight away goes to women's retreats afternoon. Case, what Mother's Day? Ha Ha. Sorry, finish my thoughts. Please continue. So been actually said. You guys can't talk about proverbs thirty one it's not mother's Day yet. Know that this is a thing like it's it's NAE. It's like it every wedding. I used to really hate, even in the evangelical days. Love is patient, love is kind, because it was always right now, and it was when I was distance from that and actually read the poem itself. It's beautiful, but it's because it's regurgitated all over and over until it's lost all meaning. Yeah, and it's had other meanings placed on it, because words changed to and the power that they have changes. Right. I've really enjoyed going thrills a different sociological historical aspects of it. Thank you for joining us. If you have any opinions about proverbs, thirty one is from you...

...have flashbacks too awful mother's days that you hate, or if you disagree with US entirely and then it is great and that you like dieting, please start a flame war on our stacebook page. Yes, please, come roast us, come roasters in those flames, English flames. Thank you. Signing out. Good night, bye, bye. Well done. Thank you. I had to his wife in the microphone. Oh my God, I couldn't deal. Yes, and it's not like any of us are hardcore feminists. We both just looked at Tish and it's not like any of us hate men, but it's look at me again and it's not not. Look, it's not, it's not. It's just I do so well and then I fucking yeah, Ho, so, Homan, so, who, man, you got a lot of wise, resting, plunging sweeping deep into the bod is, whistening moist in the moonlight. She room trembling, his loins trembling, member, is that what? Yeah, and things I hate about you hide their mom anyway. Don't still Christians moving us. You know I'm not going with a Bible degree. Yeah, I am an I don't know shit. N, okay, I can. I'm looking all because I want to encourage you to greatness. Fuck off, back out.

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