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Episode · 1 year ago

The Human Flow One

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week we watch the documentary, Human Flow, about the global displacement of 65 million people and examine the refugee crisis, what can be done, apathy, compassion and the church's response.


 

Hi and welcome to please stop.We are three friends engaging in a holistic critique of a Christian culture we grewup with through the Lens of top culture and media, with humor, honestyand thought provoking discussion. To that with me, tissue hey and Adna Ye, and tonight we're going to be discussing a documentary we watched called human flow. More than sixty five million people around the world have been forced from theirhomes to escape the famine, climate change and war, the greatest displacement sinceWorld War II. Filmmaker I way way examines the staggering scale of the refugeecrisis and it's profoundly personal human impact. Over the course of one year intwenty three countries. Way where follows a chain of urgent human stories that stretchacross the globe, including Afghanistan, France, Greece, Germany and Iraq. Iwhy? He is a contemporary artist and activist. Should he grew upin China and northwest area, and he lived under pretty harsh conditioned due tohis father's exile, who was arrested the being, what's the government said,is a rights so why way has been openly critical of the Chinese government stanceon democracy and human rights, investigated government corruption cover ups, all sorts ofthings. She's also an artist. It's a pretty complex guy. So whatif we think of this two hour, twenty minute long documentary about the refugeecrisis? Yeah, pretty much it was. It's pretty full on. It wasvery intense. I thought it was. I mean, I had a littlebit of an idea about refugees, but when you've watched something like this, you realize had a little you actually know of the situation. Like allthe countries histories, it lead to them being broken, but also complex.I felt really indecent having an emotional reaction to it. My in decent.I don't know if that's the word, but I could. I don't reallyhave a right to have this. Not that I don't have a right toit, but I feel like living in such a privilege life that I livehopeless and overwhelmed. I felt, I think that even then. I guessthat's a privileged position to be in. So, oh, it's all sohard. So I didn't I don't know, I'm processing it still, I think. HMM, yeah, just so you kind of felt dirty watching itand feeling emotions about it? Yeah, when there's nothing you're doing about it. Now, certain moments at that he get emotional over in right, wasthat Shad and you like that? That doesn't mean it doesn't change anything.To Be shaddened by what I'm watching.

Also saying that isn't untrue, becausefeeling apathetic is really the least helpful helpful day. Yeah, and I thinkthe point of the documentary was to highlight the sadness, to highlight the injustice, to highlight what's actually going on. So I think to feel those emotionswhile watching it is intentional by the producer. Yeah. Yeah, so I thinkthere's an element to which that documentary was designed to make you feel thatway. Yeah, it was also so big because he covered how many countries? Yeah, twenty three, expecting maybe like one to know, but hekind of. He covered everything from the Middle East to Central Asia, toAfrica, the Arabian Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, like everything, the UN, the EU and its involvement, the UN HCI is at, the UnitedNations Human Rights Commission, HC and their involvement in it all and what they'redoing. It was a lot to cover. Our Mexico as well, US Mexicoboarder. It was quite quite a lot. So it was a veryI appreciated it for being a decent snapshot of Globally, the Global refugee crisis, I guess, and it's a good introduction, even if it is quitefull on, into what it looks like, at least in two thousand and seventeenwhen it came out, and then after that, I guess your reactionto it is up to like just what you feel. So I feel likesome people might be motivated to do something about it, and there are fewof those. I've personally just felt overwhelmed, like how do you start with somethinglike that? Should you even can you even try to fix it's justit's too big. I can see why people are afraid of even talking aboutit because, like there is literally not literally, but it feels like there'snothing you can do. And then there's people who just don't want to knowabout it, don't want to hear about it and don't want to even talkabout the bleeding hearts who want to talk about it and they just say,Oh, tell them to go back to where they came from. We don't. We need to look after people in our own backyard first before we helpthese people. And yet, personally I felt overwhelmed, but also grateful forthe education. I guess, a good launch pad and I know that Iwant to do more research now and try to understand why Israel and Egypt areblockading Gaza. Why, yeah, all these other things are happening, whyMacedonia close its doors to all the immigrants from Syria and other places? I'vekind of stand yeah, see, I watched it not that long ago andalready like all these names just blurring together earth. So I think, ifanything at least it's a launch pad for educating yourself. So, yeah,I feel like I didn't give you any pause, didn't give you want anykind of mercy in that. There was...

...a lot of other the camera wassome lingering Gaye. So when when something should happens, usually in a filmor shothing, it kind of hands out, but it left it one quick Ithink the big thing for me that I brought up was just the lackof decency in human beings, like the fact that there are people that aregoing without basic human rights and we're more concerned about processing them with passports andall of the right documentation then we are about feeding them and clothing them,and I just don't understand why the priorities have been put that way. Andit comes down, I think, to money, like taking in the refugeesis a pressure on the economy and therefore that will put pressure on that's thetaxpayers, and that the countries wealth and and and all of those things,and I think there's a degree to which that's what it comes down to.You know, it's a political issue where people are either voted in or outbased on what the strategy g's are for for dealing with a refugee crisis suchas that. Like I just I feel like our priorities as a world that'sso incredibly mixed up that we've forgotten how to care. The whole refuge thingreally came into a head post World War tune, when millions of European toupward, uprooted by war. So in one thousand nine hundred and fifty one, the was it, the refugee convention was adopted through you one special conference, and that was basically she she's, all those people who were displaced fromthe war. But then in one nine hundred and sixty seven, this waslater open up to all refugees. As it the past sixty years, ahundred forty two countries have signed up to blot to the convention and the protocol. So just commit. That basically means that these countries are obligated to protectthe refugees, you three, their territory...

...and often to give them a shelterand actions to education, works of basic human rights. And sixty years later, the EU is their economy is booming and it's kind of an a rolereversal where refugees I just placed again. So I read a bit into someof the Australian refugee crisis that we've had and just how, I guess,just taking it a little bit closer to home and the ways in which Igrew up hearing about refugees and asylum seekers. Yeah, so I actually watched ayoutube video that was basically interviews on the street, like some a currentaffairs type program and they will basically just interviewing people and saying should we betaking refugees into our country asylum seekers? And it was post the Vietnam Warand there were a lot of the end of these refugees coming into Australia andI would say at least half of the people that we viewed said yes,we absolutely should, it's the decent thing to do, it's the right thingto do. They had, you know, varying opinions about why it was theright thing to do. But then there were also people that said no, we need to look after our own people first and they should go backwhere they came from and it's not our problem and it's why should the taxpayershave to pay for these people? So on and so forth, all theseawful things, but all those awful things, like I grew up hearing, andyou know, I was born in the s and grew up in thes and like early thousands and those things were still being said and are stillsaid today and it's just it's disheartening that there's it's almost like there's not beengrowth forward. Yeah, it's and it's definitely been. Publisha show, asyou're saying, animal do the Australian contact. So back in two thousand and oneto sit back in our early two thousands, there was a big thinghere with the children overboard, a fair which was public allegations by the Howardgovernment ministers in the way up to Shafrash Prajan erection that they's a farm shakes, had thrown their children overboard in a friggi employee to secure rescue from passageinto Australia, and I remember it was a it was a massive thing thatpeople believe about these photographs, these that were taken m and it builds intoI think it's I think it was so easy for people to believe it truebecause we sort of other these people.

Yeah, and when we other people, then we stripped their humanity away and then we shovel of course, thatit through their children overboard. What else would they do? And then,of course she was all these inquiries years later where a former senior advisor revealedin two thousand and four that he actually told John Howard in two thousand andone that the children overboard climb might be on. True that, I mean, of course it didn't matter up by the end because they'd won the electionwith that being one of the major political points. So it's all well andgood saying or believing that all these countries overseas don't treat refugees very well,when we, Australia, does it to have, especially Australia. What amI talking about? Well, one of the worst places, but treating retugeehmm yeah, and I mean recently trump and the English prime minister, BorisRestaunton, have both been saying how wonderful Australia's laws are and how well Australiadeals with asylum seekers and refugees. And it's awful because, like you say, we are one of the worst countries. So it's a international law that atpeople seeking asylum are given asylum and Australia agreed to that law, butthey don't fully through on it. So basically these people come seeking asylum andseeking refuge and we put them in a prison on an island and give themlimited food and limited resources and they're just sitting about around waiting to be processedand sometimes they get deported back home to the place where they were running frombecause they were seeking refuge. Also, we're not necessarily at the top ofthe list of countries taking in people like we might think we are. Thisis from two thousand and ten and I haven't found anything more recent, butrefugees per thousand population, so Jordan comes in first with seventy two nine people. Refugees per thousand people are living in Jordan. Australia comes in at sixtynine with one. So it's not that crazy. May Be different now,but that's yeah, I don't think we need to panick about it. Also, yeah, there's some there's a quote in the movie, the documentary,where one of the interviewees says she's in southern Italy and she's I think,and she says I'm it. It's the most pervasive kind of cruelty that canbe experienced against human being. By depriving...

...a person of all forms of security, the most basic requirements of a normal life, by cruelly placing that personat the mercy of inhospitable countries that do not want to receive this them,you are robbing them of all aspects that make human life tolerable and meaningful.And Yeah, like you was saying, Tishu its, that dehumanizing, theothering that we're so good at doing, is humans as Homo sapiens is.We other people when we don't understand them, because it's safe. So we're allabout. Our tribe was safe within our tribe, and that's how wecan believe that they would do such a thing as through their babies overboard toattract rescue. It's crazy. What's really happening is they're being stripped of theirhumanity. Refugees don't necessarily have rights, for example, in in Turkey,the rules that Turkey has about refugees don't actually favor the refugees, they favorthe government and Turkey red nationals. Yeah, so, like WHO's standing up forthem besides the U? And Not really anyone. Yeah, and justanother thing I wanted to mention is maslow's hierarchy of needs. So it's ifyou didn't know what that is, it's like this concept that at the bottomof the pyramid, I guess, is the most basic needs a human has, which is shelter, food, water, warmth, covering. That's like themost basic needs you have, and then as you go up the pyramid, you needs get more complex, which is why, when you're privilege enoughto have those things at the bottom of the pyramid, you can start thinkingabout, you know, abstract concepts and religion and rhetorical thinking, whereas whenyou're a refugee struggling just to survive, you don't have time for those things. So you might not fit in the box where you could have a debateabout why you should be allowed to enter a country or white. It's normalfor you, it's good, it's a good thing that you're seeking asylum.All these things are higher concepts that when you're just when you don't know whereyour next meal is coming from, eighty percent of people living in Gaza,eighty percent of Gazans, rely on humanitarian aid for survival. That's eighty percentof the people living in the Gaza Strip in West Bank. That's they're strugglingjust to get a meal. So they don't have time for higher concepts about, yeah, rhetorical thinking and arguments and that kind of thing. So Ithink we need to put ourselves in the shoes a little bit, maybe becausewe have the privilege to be able to do that. Something that I waswatching today they were saying like it takes...

...something like six Hundredzeros to keep peopleon the island of Manu, I believe it was. It's one of theislands anyway. Six HUNDREDZERO dollars a day too to keep people there. Sowhat if they spent that money on actually making viable, safe ways for themto seek a siglum in our country, rather than spending all that money ona prison. One of the one of the dacos that I watched, aman said a prison is more humane than this place because at least in aprison you know when you're getting out, you know when it ends and youknow. They the camps are like filled with four times as many people asthey should be. They're not humane dwellings and it's they separate families and yeah, they're just they seem to destroy people and it's it's a tactic to preventmore people from coming. Yes, as are. Are there no good immigrantexperiences in Australia? So when people migrate from countries? Yeah, depending onthe country, there are certain certain things they have to fulfill in order tobe able to migrate. Is, and that's a legal migression. Yeah,university educated. Generally, they can't have like what would be considered high riskillnesses or ongoing disabilities. They yet basically they have to tick a number ofboxes and it's about having skilled workers and people that can come in and work. But so I don't know, is that he made it like, isthat a fair thing to offer it? So somebody WHO's fleeing a war brittledcountry, right, are they the same as a refuge there immigrants who cancome through the proper channels versus people who get on a boat. No,no, yeah, but people can seek asylum. Like they might get astudent visa, they can seek asylum or if they get like a holiday visa, they can seek asylum. But either way they have to getting a visaand when you're fleeing a country that's riddled with war, you don't necessarily havetime to stop and get it easier. So, yeah, they certainly don'tmake it easy. Yeah, yeah,...

I'd be screwed. Yeah, same. I couldn't move to Canada. I wasn't allowed in past the health check. So you wouldn't have. So australianly wants us because we were born hereand I feel yeah, how do we feel the Church's response to refugees hasbeen? In our experience and in what we see, it's been self serving. That's my understanding. So the church will talk about these issues or makecase for these issues or stand up against these issues if they have something togain from it. In general. Yeah, that's that is a massive generalization andI'm more aware of that. But it's not necessarily something there's obviously there'sa portion of people who have an ongoing, invested fight against issues of injustice.But in a general sense it'll be like we delegate one day to talkabout this one issue and you should all do something about it, and thenthey move on. I haven't seen an active education given to people from apulpit that suggests that there needs to be some kind of ongoing change, becauseI found in church they very outreach focused. I vaguely remember something about a boatthat had almost sunk or whatever off the coast of Wa and it beingtalked about at Church and people seem pretty responsive and wanting to do something tohelp. But I get that when you say church you don't necessarily mean literallythe structure of the Church. I mean Christians in general. It's like thebody of Christ yeah, which, as a generalization, there's a whole likejoining get Haus, too dirty because it's complicated and it's not our job,but also we're going to vote for policies that and it's a bit help political. So yeah, church to be to to political fold the one way orthe other there are essentially ostracizing potentially half it. And this is an Americawhere they will jump on board and be like yeah, we'll bring the flaginto church and make it all thing. Yeah, good point. I justwant to be aware that we're not just inducting the whole, the whole church, because I know there's a lot of churches that, especially on the eastcoast, like in Queensland, that do a lot, the Uniting Church ofQueensland that on purpose campaigns and advocates for asylum seekers. So they are.There are small pockets. So don't just want to disis small, but that'simportant because I do understand that. I'm quite bitter about everything. They yeah, well, I'm in. The Bible was full of displaced people. Yeah, these lights, look at them. They didn't have a home until Canaanand then later in one thousand nine hundred and forty eight when Britain gave himthat little area, and the fighting with Palestine over it since then. Soyeah, Bible is full of displaced people,...

...mostly these reelites, just not havinga home, having to wander around the rabeing peninsula. But at years. Have you seen the size of the land? You could cross it bycar in a couple hours putting on our fashoot. Yeah, it's nuts.Have you seen this? And they what eighty years wandering around that tiny bitof land. They must have just walked in circles. Yeah, to notfind another caravan markings a bolder and Nice Boulder. Sure, yeah, I'llalways chuck forever check his life, but what's the point? Like, what'sthe point of all the suffering? There are children in refugee camps suffering whodon't deserve it. You haven't done anything wrong with their lives. They're notold enough to have done anything wrong, and here they are, stuck inrefugee camps. The rest of the world isn't doing anything for them and they'resupposed to be some great God. They're who's allowing these things to happen?Or is he punishing someone like how? It doesn't the dots don't connect.It doesn't make sense. Yeah, and it's also vicious, shark or thatyou shad the children. That's all I've known, the glad indctrinated. Yeah, they're God. The Been Tho so much trauma. Yeah, they're seeingtheir homes destroy the seeing their families killed. They've got all this trauma and theygrow up and I mean I'd want revenge. We just we don't givethem a fighting chance. M Yeah, where is? Where is room fora refugee? And Capitalism? If capitalism is you're worth what you could produce. Where is room for a refugee in that? So I feel like somepeople might want to call us out as virtue signalers or as bleeding hearts whowant to talk about the refugee crisis ignore the problems in our own backyard.Yada, Yada, Yada, bleeding heart libs. However, I think educatingyourself is important and I think talking about the hard stuff like the global refugeecrisis, which is so immense and so vast, you can't sum it upin a two and a half hour document, and sure you can't sum it upin a half hour podcast, but educating yourself in it and taking aninterest in issues that aren't in your day to day life, I think that. I think it's important and it informs your worldview and it informs your daytodayactions. So, even if you're not out there working for the UN,helping to hand out food boxes in Berlin at a refugee camp or whatever,you can still have these conversations with people, you can still spread a bit ofawareness and the more educated you are, I feel, the better choices youmake in your life. So I think I think it's okay to bea bleeding heart and get emotional and I think it's okay to get educated andif you feel cool to action, that's even that up, but if not, that's okay, because not everyone has the capacity or the emotional bandwidth orthe time to devote to being hands on...

...activist and and I think it's okay. So I just wanted to say that I think the whole like the wholedocumentary, is kind of a call to something. Yeah, it's not reallya soul to action. That's a call to a response. Yeah, somekind of respons and like I know that for me personally in this is likenot on the podcast, but I feel way more informed about it than beforebecause I was looking at maps and stuff while I was watching it to tryand see where things are geographically, and I feel like I could talk toa refugee and ask questions that being completely ignorant, and now I have alaunch pad to then like investigating more stuff and watch another documentary without going waya cereal, you know. anyways, do you think it was intentionally donethat girl was no short of narrative in that usually in documentaries you should havefollowed someone story from the beginning should the end, and with fish there wasno person to there was no story to get behind. It was the collectivestory, is a collective experience that we were witnessing, and I think partof his message was the enormity of it, like look, it's everywhere, it'son all these continents, you can't escape it. It's here. Andthere were a little bits of narrative, like a bit with the Tiger inGaza that somehow found its way in there and was trapped in a tiny cagein Gaza, and they went through this whole process to get it to SouthAfrica and all this paperwork through the EU and everything, and it was obviouslydichotomy. Like, side by side of the people trapped in Gaza, therewere those young women who were talking to eye away way about how they Gazais a prison. It's a huge prison, but it's still a prison in thisstuff there and they love to be able to travel and see the world. They can't even see Israel because of all the blockades. They only havewhat they hear about the outside world and they they feel like they're in aprison and then just before that they'd shown the tiger roaming around its cage,not, I'm not on grass, not in the jungle, and then finallygetting to be free. Meanwhile these girls are still trapped in Gaza, whichis a prison of its own. So, yeah, he definitely found ways toweave a bit of a story or a narrative in different sections without evenrealizing, I guess, that he was telling us a story. But Ithink overall it is just the enormity in the complexity that was meant to overwhelm. Yeah, definitely achieved its purpose, if that was the goal. Yeah, for sure, and I think partly that lack of narrative was why itwas hard to watch, but it was intended. It was, yeah,intentionally hard to watch, because it shouldn't be something that entertains you. Yeah, it's not a popcorn movie, no where. Like here's a crisis,here's another one, here's another one way you're still dealing with that one.JK, here's another one. Oh, by the way, did you knowthat Kenya has the largest refugee camp in the world, that five Hundredzero peoplehave passed through here in the light from like sub Saharan whatever, like justit's just too much, just too much.

But you know, we have theprivilege to be able to turn it off. HMM. And for thesepeople it's their life. And Twenty six years is the average time the refugeewill spend displaced. Twenty six years. That's enough time for a kid togrow up and become more radicalized. Yeah, yeah, I not tell you yourown kids by that point be born into it and leave with your ownchildren. That's it. In in Lebanon, in a one kilometer distance, thereare a hundred thousand people living, Palestinians who have lived there for sixtyyears in a camp. Sixty years a hundred thousand Palestinians have been living inLebanon as refugees in a one kilometer space and they care for their kids,don't go to school and they kids that have been born and brought up thereand have kids of their own. So it's a life, it's it's justa new reality and and a lot of them will just never get to gohome or find a home. Yeah, say, yes. What's the takeaway, considering so overwhelming, if there's a little bits and pieces, will wetake away from it? Humankind is fund yeah, probably don't. Humankind iskind of fo I mean, Tishue, do you want to talk about theelection? We are still on titting on. WHO's one election? Another conservative governmentwho doesn't care about children looking cages in America type clear. Yeah,so who knows that the United States kind of feels like it's on the brinkof collapse right now. So who knows where the x refugees will be comingfrom? What? I always wanted to go back in time and watch youa fall of Ryan short good sho. Know I don't actually have to dothat, my Gosh, just trump own a fiddle time. Yeah, theright now, like cities of boarded up their shops and they're waiting for theoutcome of the election. And and I guess we'll see what happens and couldbeat it in time, Stuy, could be the end times. I dothink it's interesting that Turkey that big, like used to be the Ottoman empires. Now the country of Turkey Constantinople, birthplace, a Christianity, while atbirthplace. But yeah, the Early Church, Antioch, HMM, yeah, rightthere in the middle of Turkey. So the first church came out ofone of the worst human rights abusing countries of all time. So we havea collective please don't stop, I guess. I we have this new segment we'vebeen doing call please don't stop when we talk about the things that we'vebeen enjoying lately, and I feel like...

...we have the same response tonight andI'll take it away. So I guess this is a chance for us toacknowledge I way, way, and the fact that he is an ambassador forpeople that don't have a voice, the fact that he is shedding light onissues that need to have light shed on them and that he is taking itto the ground and getting his hands dirty, I guess, and actually meeting peopleand seeing these people for what they are, which humans with rights anddeserving of love and care. So yeah, I, way, way, pleasedon't stop, please start. Stop. Well, thanks for joining US tonight. It's gonna Pretty Fall on episode, but I hope that we've all beena little bit more educated by the situation. Yeah, no, definitely, it's all about the situation, or by the situation. I've yeah,it was an intense episode. It was intense documentary to watch, but wedo recommend, if you have the time, to check it out. It's calledhuman flow and it's available on Youtube. I think it's like four and ninetynine two rent. It's like ten bucks to buy. I don't knowif you'd want to buy it and what you can. It's kind of analso get it on the Microsoft store, its box or all, sorry,the Google store, Yepo Place Story Score. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sothere's multiple ways you can get and we do recommend it. And like, this isn't sponsor to anything, but it is. Yeah, it's agood window into a world that you may already know about but you may nothave heard these stories about. So, yeah, we recommend it. Thankyou for joining us. And this is back Tisi and anice signing off byyeah, brilliant. Okay say.

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