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Episode · 1 year ago

The Human Flow One

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week we watch the documentary, Human Flow, about the global displacement of 65 million people and examine the refugee crisis, what can be done, apathy, compassion and the church's response.


 

Hi and welcome to please stop. We are three friends engaging in a holistic critique of a Christian culture we grew up with through the Lens of top culture and media, with humor, honesty and thought provoking discussion. To that with me, tissue hey and Adna Ye, and tonight we're going to be discussing a documentary we watched called human flow. More than sixty five million people around the world have been forced from their homes to escape the famine, climate change and war, the greatest displacement since World War II. Filmmaker I way way examines the staggering scale of the refugee crisis and it's profoundly personal human impact. Over the course of one year in twenty three countries. Way where follows a chain of urgent human stories that stretch across the globe, including Afghanistan, France, Greece, Germany and Iraq. I why? He is a contemporary artist and activist. Should he grew up in China and northwest area, and he lived under pretty harsh conditioned due to his father's exile, who was arrested the being, what's the government said, is a rights so why way has been openly critical of the Chinese government stance on democracy and human rights, investigated government corruption cover ups, all sorts of things. She's also an artist. It's a pretty complex guy. So what if we think of this two hour, twenty minute long documentary about the refugee crisis? Yeah, pretty much it was. It's pretty full on. It was very intense. I thought it was. I mean, I had a little bit of an idea about refugees, but when you've watched something like this, you realize had a little you actually know of the situation. Like all the countries histories, it lead to them being broken, but also complex. I felt really indecent having an emotional reaction to it. My in decent. I don't know if that's the word, but I could. I don't really have a right to have this. Not that I don't have a right to it, but I feel like living in such a privilege life that I live hopeless and overwhelmed. I felt, I think that even then. I guess that's a privileged position to be in. So, oh, it's all so hard. So I didn't I don't know, I'm processing it still, I think. HMM, yeah, just so you kind of felt dirty watching it and feeling emotions about it? Yeah, when there's nothing you're doing about it. Now, certain moments at that he get emotional over in right, was that Shad and you like that? That doesn't mean it doesn't change anything. To Be shaddened by what I'm watching.

Also saying that isn't untrue, because feeling apathetic is really the least helpful helpful day. Yeah, and I think the point of the documentary was to highlight the sadness, to highlight the injustice, to highlight what's actually going on. So I think to feel those emotions while watching it is intentional by the producer. Yeah. Yeah, so I think there's an element to which that documentary was designed to make you feel that way. Yeah, it was also so big because he covered how many countries? Yeah, twenty three, expecting maybe like one to know, but he kind of. He covered everything from the Middle East to Central Asia, to Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, like everything, the UN, the EU and its involvement, the UN HCI is at, the United Nations Human Rights Commission, HC and their involvement in it all and what they're doing. It was a lot to cover. Our Mexico as well, US Mexico boarder. It was quite quite a lot. So it was a very I appreciated it for being a decent snapshot of Globally, the Global refugee crisis, I guess, and it's a good introduction, even if it is quite full on, into what it looks like, at least in two thousand and seventeen when it came out, and then after that, I guess your reaction to it is up to like just what you feel. So I feel like some people might be motivated to do something about it, and there are few of those. I've personally just felt overwhelmed, like how do you start with something like that? Should you even can you even try to fix it's just it's too big. I can see why people are afraid of even talking about it because, like there is literally not literally, but it feels like there's nothing you can do. And then there's people who just don't want to know about it, don't want to hear about it and don't want to even talk about the bleeding hearts who want to talk about it and they just say, Oh, tell them to go back to where they came from. We don't. We need to look after people in our own backyard first before we help these people. And yet, personally I felt overwhelmed, but also grateful for the education. I guess, a good launch pad and I know that I want to do more research now and try to understand why Israel and Egypt are blockading Gaza. Why, yeah, all these other things are happening, why Macedonia close its doors to all the immigrants from Syria and other places? I've kind of stand yeah, see, I watched it not that long ago and already like all these names just blurring together earth. So I think, if anything at least it's a launch pad for educating yourself. So, yeah, I feel like I didn't give you any pause, didn't give you want any kind of mercy in that. There was...

...a lot of other the camera was some lingering Gaye. So when when something should happens, usually in a film or shothing, it kind of hands out, but it left it one quick I think the big thing for me that I brought up was just the lack of decency in human beings, like the fact that there are people that are going without basic human rights and we're more concerned about processing them with passports and all of the right documentation then we are about feeding them and clothing them, and I just don't understand why the priorities have been put that way. And it comes down, I think, to money, like taking in the refugees is a pressure on the economy and therefore that will put pressure on that's the taxpayers, and that the countries wealth and and and all of those things, and I think there's a degree to which that's what it comes down to. You know, it's a political issue where people are either voted in or out based on what the strategy g's are for for dealing with a refugee crisis such as that. Like I just I feel like our priorities as a world that's so incredibly mixed up that we've forgotten how to care. The whole refuge thing really came into a head post World War tune, when millions of European to upward, uprooted by war. So in one thousand nine hundred and fifty one, the was it, the refugee convention was adopted through you one special conference, and that was basically she she's, all those people who were displaced from the war. But then in one nine hundred and sixty seven, this was later open up to all refugees. As it the past sixty years, a hundred forty two countries have signed up to blot to the convention and the protocol. So just commit. That basically means that these countries are obligated to protect the refugees, you three, their territory...

...and often to give them a shelter and actions to education, works of basic human rights. And sixty years later, the EU is their economy is booming and it's kind of an a role reversal where refugees I just placed again. So I read a bit into some of the Australian refugee crisis that we've had and just how, I guess, just taking it a little bit closer to home and the ways in which I grew up hearing about refugees and asylum seekers. Yeah, so I actually watched a youtube video that was basically interviews on the street, like some a current affairs type program and they will basically just interviewing people and saying should we be taking refugees into our country asylum seekers? And it was post the Vietnam War and there were a lot of the end of these refugees coming into Australia and I would say at least half of the people that we viewed said yes, we absolutely should, it's the decent thing to do, it's the right thing to do. They had, you know, varying opinions about why it was the right thing to do. But then there were also people that said no, we need to look after our own people first and they should go back where they came from and it's not our problem and it's why should the taxpayers have to pay for these people? So on and so forth, all these awful things, but all those awful things, like I grew up hearing, and you know, I was born in the s and grew up in the s and like early thousands and those things were still being said and are still said today and it's just it's disheartening that there's it's almost like there's not been growth forward. Yeah, it's and it's definitely been. Publisha show, as you're saying, animal do the Australian contact. So back in two thousand and one to sit back in our early two thousands, there was a big thing here with the children overboard, a fair which was public allegations by the Howard government ministers in the way up to Shafrash Prajan erection that they's a farm shakes, had thrown their children overboard in a friggi employee to secure rescue from passage into Australia, and I remember it was a it was a massive thing that people believe about these photographs, these that were taken m and it builds into I think it's I think it was so easy for people to believe it true because we sort of other these people.

Yeah, and when we other people, then we stripped their humanity away and then we shovel of course, that it through their children overboard. What else would they do? And then, of course she was all these inquiries years later where a former senior advisor revealed in two thousand and four that he actually told John Howard in two thousand and one that the children overboard climb might be on. True that, I mean, of course it didn't matter up by the end because they'd won the election with that being one of the major political points. So it's all well and good saying or believing that all these countries overseas don't treat refugees very well, when we, Australia, does it to have, especially Australia. What am I talking about? Well, one of the worst places, but treating retugee hmm yeah, and I mean recently trump and the English prime minister, Boris Restaunton, have both been saying how wonderful Australia's laws are and how well Australia deals with asylum seekers and refugees. And it's awful because, like you say, we are one of the worst countries. So it's a international law that at people seeking asylum are given asylum and Australia agreed to that law, but they don't fully through on it. So basically these people come seeking asylum and seeking refuge and we put them in a prison on an island and give them limited food and limited resources and they're just sitting about around waiting to be processed and sometimes they get deported back home to the place where they were running from because they were seeking refuge. Also, we're not necessarily at the top of the list of countries taking in people like we might think we are. This is from two thousand and ten and I haven't found anything more recent, but refugees per thousand population, so Jordan comes in first with seventy two nine people. Refugees per thousand people are living in Jordan. Australia comes in at sixty nine with one. So it's not that crazy. May Be different now, but that's yeah, I don't think we need to panick about it. Also, yeah, there's some there's a quote in the movie, the documentary, where one of the interviewees says she's in southern Italy and she's I think, and she says I'm it. It's the most pervasive kind of cruelty that can be experienced against human being. By depriving...

...a person of all forms of security, the most basic requirements of a normal life, by cruelly placing that person at the mercy of inhospitable countries that do not want to receive this them, you are robbing them of all aspects that make human life tolerable and meaningful. And Yeah, like you was saying, Tishu its, that dehumanizing, the othering that we're so good at doing, is humans as Homo sapiens is. We other people when we don't understand them, because it's safe. So we're all about. Our tribe was safe within our tribe, and that's how we can believe that they would do such a thing as through their babies overboard to attract rescue. It's crazy. What's really happening is they're being stripped of their humanity. Refugees don't necessarily have rights, for example, in in Turkey, the rules that Turkey has about refugees don't actually favor the refugees, they favor the government and Turkey red nationals. Yeah, so, like WHO's standing up for them besides the U? And Not really anyone. Yeah, and just another thing I wanted to mention is maslow's hierarchy of needs. So it's if you didn't know what that is, it's like this concept that at the bottom of the pyramid, I guess, is the most basic needs a human has, which is shelter, food, water, warmth, covering. That's like the most basic needs you have, and then as you go up the pyramid, you needs get more complex, which is why, when you're privilege enough to have those things at the bottom of the pyramid, you can start thinking about, you know, abstract concepts and religion and rhetorical thinking, whereas when you're a refugee struggling just to survive, you don't have time for those things. So you might not fit in the box where you could have a debate about why you should be allowed to enter a country or white. It's normal for you, it's good, it's a good thing that you're seeking asylum. All these things are higher concepts that when you're just when you don't know where your next meal is coming from, eighty percent of people living in Gaza, eighty percent of Gazans, rely on humanitarian aid for survival. That's eighty percent of the people living in the Gaza Strip in West Bank. That's they're struggling just to get a meal. So they don't have time for higher concepts about, yeah, rhetorical thinking and arguments and that kind of thing. So I think we need to put ourselves in the shoes a little bit, maybe because we have the privilege to be able to do that. Something that I was watching today they were saying like it takes...

...something like six Hundredzeros to keep people on the island of Manu, I believe it was. It's one of the islands anyway. Six HUNDREDZERO dollars a day too to keep people there. So what if they spent that money on actually making viable, safe ways for them to seek a siglum in our country, rather than spending all that money on a prison. One of the one of the dacos that I watched, a man said a prison is more humane than this place because at least in a prison you know when you're getting out, you know when it ends and you know. They the camps are like filled with four times as many people as they should be. They're not humane dwellings and it's they separate families and yeah, they're just they seem to destroy people and it's it's a tactic to prevent more people from coming. Yes, as are. Are there no good immigrant experiences in Australia? So when people migrate from countries? Yeah, depending on the country, there are certain certain things they have to fulfill in order to be able to migrate. Is, and that's a legal migression. Yeah, university educated. Generally, they can't have like what would be considered high risk illnesses or ongoing disabilities. They yet basically they have to tick a number of boxes and it's about having skilled workers and people that can come in and work. But so I don't know, is that he made it like, is that a fair thing to offer it? So somebody WHO's fleeing a war brittled country, right, are they the same as a refuge there immigrants who can come through the proper channels versus people who get on a boat. No, no, yeah, but people can seek asylum. Like they might get a student visa, they can seek asylum or if they get like a holiday visa, they can seek asylum. But either way they have to getting a visa and when you're fleeing a country that's riddled with war, you don't necessarily have time to stop and get it easier. So, yeah, they certainly don't make it easy. Yeah, yeah,...

I'd be screwed. Yeah, same. I couldn't move to Canada. I wasn't allowed in past the health check. So you wouldn't have. So australianly wants us because we were born here and I feel yeah, how do we feel the Church's response to refugees has been? In our experience and in what we see, it's been self serving. That's my understanding. So the church will talk about these issues or make case for these issues or stand up against these issues if they have something to gain from it. In general. Yeah, that's that is a massive generalization and I'm more aware of that. But it's not necessarily something there's obviously there's a portion of people who have an ongoing, invested fight against issues of injustice. But in a general sense it'll be like we delegate one day to talk about this one issue and you should all do something about it, and then they move on. I haven't seen an active education given to people from a pulpit that suggests that there needs to be some kind of ongoing change, because I found in church they very outreach focused. I vaguely remember something about a boat that had almost sunk or whatever off the coast of Wa and it being talked about at Church and people seem pretty responsive and wanting to do something to help. But I get that when you say church you don't necessarily mean literally the structure of the Church. I mean Christians in general. It's like the body of Christ yeah, which, as a generalization, there's a whole like joining get Haus, too dirty because it's complicated and it's not our job, but also we're going to vote for policies that and it's a bit help political. So yeah, church to be to to political fold the one way or the other there are essentially ostracizing potentially half it. And this is an America where they will jump on board and be like yeah, we'll bring the flag into church and make it all thing. Yeah, good point. I just want to be aware that we're not just inducting the whole, the whole church, because I know there's a lot of churches that, especially on the east coast, like in Queensland, that do a lot, the Uniting Church of Queensland that on purpose campaigns and advocates for asylum seekers. So they are. There are small pockets. So don't just want to disis small, but that's important because I do understand that. I'm quite bitter about everything. They yeah, well, I'm in. The Bible was full of displaced people. Yeah, these lights, look at them. They didn't have a home until Canaan and then later in one thousand nine hundred and forty eight when Britain gave him that little area, and the fighting with Palestine over it since then. So yeah, Bible is full of displaced people,...

...mostly these reelites, just not having a home, having to wander around the rabeing peninsula. But at years. Have you seen the size of the land? You could cross it by car in a couple hours putting on our fashoot. Yeah, it's nuts. Have you seen this? And they what eighty years wandering around that tiny bit of land. They must have just walked in circles. Yeah, to not find another caravan markings a bolder and Nice Boulder. Sure, yeah, I'll always chuck forever check his life, but what's the point? Like, what's the point of all the suffering? There are children in refugee camps suffering who don't deserve it. You haven't done anything wrong with their lives. They're not old enough to have done anything wrong, and here they are, stuck in refugee camps. The rest of the world isn't doing anything for them and they're supposed to be some great God. They're who's allowing these things to happen? Or is he punishing someone like how? It doesn't the dots don't connect. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, and it's also vicious, shark or that you shad the children. That's all I've known, the glad indctrinated. Yeah, they're God. The Been Tho so much trauma. Yeah, they're seeing their homes destroy the seeing their families killed. They've got all this trauma and they grow up and I mean I'd want revenge. We just we don't give them a fighting chance. M Yeah, where is? Where is room for a refugee? And Capitalism? If capitalism is you're worth what you could produce. Where is room for a refugee in that? So I feel like some people might want to call us out as virtue signalers or as bleeding hearts who want to talk about the refugee crisis ignore the problems in our own backyard. Yada, Yada, Yada, bleeding heart libs. However, I think educating yourself is important and I think talking about the hard stuff like the global refugee crisis, which is so immense and so vast, you can't sum it up in a two and a half hour document, and sure you can't sum it up in a half hour podcast, but educating yourself in it and taking an interest in issues that aren't in your day to day life, I think that. I think it's important and it informs your worldview and it informs your daytoday actions. So, even if you're not out there working for the UN, helping to hand out food boxes in Berlin at a refugee camp or whatever, you can still have these conversations with people, you can still spread a bit of awareness and the more educated you are, I feel, the better choices you make in your life. So I think I think it's okay to be a bleeding heart and get emotional and I think it's okay to get educated and if you feel cool to action, that's even that up, but if not, that's okay, because not everyone has the capacity or the emotional bandwidth or the time to devote to being hands on...

...activist and and I think it's okay. So I just wanted to say that I think the whole like the whole documentary, is kind of a call to something. Yeah, it's not really a soul to action. That's a call to a response. Yeah, some kind of respons and like I know that for me personally in this is like not on the podcast, but I feel way more informed about it than before because I was looking at maps and stuff while I was watching it to try and see where things are geographically, and I feel like I could talk to a refugee and ask questions that being completely ignorant, and now I have a launch pad to then like investigating more stuff and watch another documentary without going way a cereal, you know. anyways, do you think it was intentionally done that girl was no short of narrative in that usually in documentaries you should have followed someone story from the beginning should the end, and with fish there was no person to there was no story to get behind. It was the collective story, is a collective experience that we were witnessing, and I think part of his message was the enormity of it, like look, it's everywhere, it's on all these continents, you can't escape it. It's here. And there were a little bits of narrative, like a bit with the Tiger in Gaza that somehow found its way in there and was trapped in a tiny cage in Gaza, and they went through this whole process to get it to South Africa and all this paperwork through the EU and everything, and it was obviously dichotomy. Like, side by side of the people trapped in Gaza, there were those young women who were talking to eye away way about how they Gaza is a prison. It's a huge prison, but it's still a prison in this stuff there and they love to be able to travel and see the world. They can't even see Israel because of all the blockades. They only have what they hear about the outside world and they they feel like they're in a prison and then just before that they'd shown the tiger roaming around its cage, not, I'm not on grass, not in the jungle, and then finally getting to be free. Meanwhile these girls are still trapped in Gaza, which is a prison of its own. So, yeah, he definitely found ways to weave a bit of a story or a narrative in different sections without even realizing, I guess, that he was telling us a story. But I think overall it is just the enormity in the complexity that was meant to overwhelm. Yeah, definitely achieved its purpose, if that was the goal. Yeah, for sure, and I think partly that lack of narrative was why it was hard to watch, but it was intended. It was, yeah, intentionally hard to watch, because it shouldn't be something that entertains you. Yeah, it's not a popcorn movie, no where. Like here's a crisis, here's another one, here's another one way you're still dealing with that one. JK, here's another one. Oh, by the way, did you know that Kenya has the largest refugee camp in the world, that five Hundredzero people have passed through here in the light from like sub Saharan whatever, like just it's just too much, just too much.

But you know, we have the privilege to be able to turn it off. HMM. And for these people it's their life. And Twenty six years is the average time the refugee will spend displaced. Twenty six years. That's enough time for a kid to grow up and become more radicalized. Yeah, yeah, I not tell you your own kids by that point be born into it and leave with your own children. That's it. In in Lebanon, in a one kilometer distance, there are a hundred thousand people living, Palestinians who have lived there for sixty years in a camp. Sixty years a hundred thousand Palestinians have been living in Lebanon as refugees in a one kilometer space and they care for their kids, don't go to school and they kids that have been born and brought up there and have kids of their own. So it's a life, it's it's just a new reality and and a lot of them will just never get to go home or find a home. Yeah, say, yes. What's the takeaway, considering so overwhelming, if there's a little bits and pieces, will we take away from it? Humankind is fund yeah, probably don't. Humankind is kind of fo I mean, Tishue, do you want to talk about the election? We are still on titting on. WHO's one election? Another conservative government who doesn't care about children looking cages in America type clear. Yeah, so who knows that the United States kind of feels like it's on the brink of collapse right now. So who knows where the x refugees will be coming from? What? I always wanted to go back in time and watch you a fall of Ryan short good sho. Know I don't actually have to do that, my Gosh, just trump own a fiddle time. Yeah, the right now, like cities of boarded up their shops and they're waiting for the outcome of the election. And and I guess we'll see what happens and could beat it in time, Stuy, could be the end times. I do think it's interesting that Turkey that big, like used to be the Ottoman empires. Now the country of Turkey Constantinople, birthplace, a Christianity, while at birthplace. But yeah, the Early Church, Antioch, HMM, yeah, right there in the middle of Turkey. So the first church came out of one of the worst human rights abusing countries of all time. So we have a collective please don't stop, I guess. I we have this new segment we've been doing call please don't stop when we talk about the things that we've been enjoying lately, and I feel like...

...we have the same response tonight and I'll take it away. So I guess this is a chance for us to acknowledge I way, way, and the fact that he is an ambassador for people that don't have a voice, the fact that he is shedding light on issues that need to have light shed on them and that he is taking it to the ground and getting his hands dirty, I guess, and actually meeting people and seeing these people for what they are, which humans with rights and deserving of love and care. So yeah, I, way, way, please don't stop, please start. Stop. Well, thanks for joining US tonight. It's gonna Pretty Fall on episode, but I hope that we've all been a little bit more educated by the situation. Yeah, no, definitely, it's all about the situation, or by the situation. I've yeah, it was an intense episode. It was intense documentary to watch, but we do recommend, if you have the time, to check it out. It's called human flow and it's available on Youtube. I think it's like four and ninety nine two rent. It's like ten bucks to buy. I don't know if you'd want to buy it and what you can. It's kind of an also get it on the Microsoft store, its box or all, sorry, the Google store, Yepo Place Story Score. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so there's multiple ways you can get and we do recommend it. And like, this isn't sponsor to anything, but it is. Yeah, it's a good window into a world that you may already know about but you may not have heard these stories about. So, yeah, we recommend it. Thank you for joining us. And this is back Tisi and anice signing off by yeah, brilliant. Okay say.

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