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Episode · 10 months ago

The Human Flow One

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week we watch the documentary, Human Flow, about the global displacement of 65 million people and examine the refugee crisis, what can be done, apathy, compassion and the church's response.


 

Hi and welcome to please STOCP, we havethree friends engaging in a Holi Sicratique of the Christian culture. Wegrew up with Duda Lens of top culture and media with humor honesty andthought provoking discussion that with me, a Tis and Anna Yo, and tonightwe're going to be discussing a documentary, latched called human flow. More than sixty five million peoplearound the world have been forced from their homes to escape salmon, crimatechange and war. The greatest displacement since world wore tofilmmaker. I wayway examines the staggering scale of the repugee crisisand its profoundly personal human in that over the course of one year intwenty three countries, wayway follows a chain of virgant human stories thatstretch across the globe, including Afghanistan, France grace, Germany andEraq. I way way he is a contemporary artishand atdetis sow. He grew up in China and the northwest area, and helived under pretty harsh conditions. Juni he's father's exile, who wasarrested to being what the government SAI is a ratis. So why way has beenopenly cridical of the Chinese government stent on democracy, an humanrights investiget, a government, corruption, coverups, all sorts ofthings, she's Oso, anardist, it's a pretty complex sky. So what Di we thinkof this two hour? Twenty minute long documentary about the refugee crisis, yeah pretty Muchit's, pretty full on itwas very intense. I thought it was. I mean I had a little bit of an Arguabout prefugees, but when you watche something like this, you realize howlittle you actually know of the situation like Al All of the COUNTRI's histories. Tat Bleed, O thembeing broken. Atal Shol Complex. I felt really indecent having an emotional reactionto it. Nodit I don't know if that's the word, but Li I D, I don't really have aright to have this, not that I don't have a right to it,but I feel like living in touch a privileged life that I live hopelessand overwhelmed. I felt I think that even then I guess that's a privilegedposition to be in SI. Oh, it's all so hard! So I I don't know I'm processing it still. I think yeah Jutsay you kind of felt dirty watching it and feeling emotions about it. A whenthere's nothing you're doing about it. No sertain minutes at Dyou getamotional lover and Ou like wall that Sha on' like, but that doesn't mean ifit doesn't change anything to be...

...saddened by wet. I'm watching. All,though saying that isn't untrue, becausefeeling apathetic is really the least helpfully helpful, Tiy, Yeah Andi. Think the point of the docmentarywas to highlight the sadness to highlight the injustice to highlight.What's actually going on, so I think to feel those emotions while watching itis intentional by the producer yeah yeah, so I think, there's anelement to which that documentary was designed to make you feel that way.Yeah. It was also so big because he covered how many countries yeah whenhe's Ra Mbe obut. He kind of he covered everything from the Middle East toCentral Asia, to Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, like everything, the UN, the EU and itsinvolvement, the UN hcrs at the United Nations, Human Rights Commission HSCand their involvement in it all and what they're doing t it was a lot tocover. Oh Mexico as well t e US Mexico, Bourht Ur. It was quite quite a lot, soit was a very. I appreciated it for being a decent snapshot of globally theGlobal Refugee crisis. I guess, and it's a good introduction, even if it isquite full on into what it looks like at least in two thousand and seventeenwhen it came out and then after that, I guess your reaction to it is like just what you feel so I feel likesome people might be motivated to do something about it and there are few ofthose I've personally just felt overwhelmed like how do you start withsomething like that? Should you even? Can you even try to fix it's just it'stoo big. I can see whyt people are afraid of even talking about it because,like there's literally, not literally, but it feels likethere's nothing you can do and then there's people who just don't want toknow about it, don't want to hear about it and don't want to even talk aboutthe bleeding hearts who want to talk about it and they just say: Oh tellthem to go back to where they came from. We don't. We need to look after peoplein our own backyard first, before we help these people and yet personally, Ifelt overwhelmed, but also grateful for the education. I guess a Good LaunchPad, and I know that I want to do more research now and try to understand why Israel and Egypt blockhading Gaza,why all these other things are happening. Why Macedonia closed itsdoors to all the immigrants from Syria and other places, Afghanistan yeah see. Iwatched it not that long ago, and already like all these names are justblurring together. So I think, if anything at least it's a larnch pad foreducating yourself so yeah, I feel like Um didn't give you any pause. Didn'tgive you an any kind of mercery in that...

...there was a lot of other. The camerawish the linber engage so when, when shopping shot happens, usually n infilm or something it kind of Hans Out, but it left it. Aw Quick. I think a bigthing for me that it bought up was just the lack of decency in human beings like the fact that there are people that are going withoutbasic human rights and we're more concerned aboutprocessing them with passports and all of the right documentation. Then we areabout feeding them and hoiding them, and I just don't understand why thepriorities have been put that way and it comes down, I think, to money liketaking in the REFU Jeses a pressure on the economy and thereforethat will put pressure on Tex texpayers and the country's wealthand and all of those things, and I think, there's a degree to which that'swhat it comes down to. You know it's a political issue wherepeople are either voted in or out, based on what their strategies are forfor dealing with a refuge. Crassis such as that and likeI just I feel like our priorities as a world aso incredibly mixed oup that was forgotten how to care the whole rkj thing really kind ing toa head polist World War. True, when a millions of Europeans we upbroadupwaded by war, so in one thouand, nine hundred and sifty one, the was at therefuge. Conviction was adopted through Uin special conference, and that wasbasicaly Te, a just all those people who were displaced from the war.But then in one thousand, nine thundred and sixty seven thish was O nator openup to old refugees. Ai The past six years, hands and fortytude countrieshave signed up to VI the convenction and the Protocor,so just commitment, basically mans hat. These countries are obligated toprotect the refuge, ity Free Dat,...

...charactery and also to give them age,shelter and access to education, works of basic human rights and sixty yearslater, Thau istheir economy is booming and it's kind of been a roll reversal.wite refugees, I jusplaced again, so I read a bit into some of the Australian refugee crisisthat we've had and just how I guess, just taking it a little bitcloser to home and the ways in which I grew up. Hearing about refuges andasylum seekers yeah. So I actually watched a youtubevideo that was basically interviews on the street likesome accurrent affairs type program and they well. Basically, just intervoing peopleand saying should well be taking refuges into our country, asylumseekers and it was post the Vietnam War and there were alot of Vietnemi's refuges coming into Australia and I would say at least half of thepeople that were inteviewed said. Yes, we absolutely should it's the decentthing to do it's the right thing to do. They had you know varying opinionsabout why it was the right thing to do, but then there were also people. Thatsaid, no, we need to look after our own people first, and they should go back where they camefrom, and it's not our problem and it's. Why should the taxpayers have topay for these people so on and so forth? All these awful things, but all thoseawful things like I grew up hearing and you know I was born in the s and grewup in the s and like early twohousands and those things were still being said,and I still said today and it's just it's just harpening thatthere's it's almost like: There's not been growth forward, yeah and it'sdefinitely been poishage to a war saying Andi Woul, the Australiancontext. So back in twohusand and one ging toDotrktat s back in o the early Twzan. There was a big thing here: Ith Thechildren overboard, a a which was public anegations by the Howargovernment ministers, then o lead out to Suprash, prige and erection thatthees, a filing sakeds had thrown their children overboard en a presu employeeto secuer rescue rand passage into Australia, and I remember it was. Itwas a nasive thing that people believe about these photographs, th that weretaken and it builds into. I think it's. Ithink it was so easy for people to believe it truth, because we shord ofother these people yeah...

...and Whon, we other people, then we shricttheir humanity away and then wihsiwill. Of course, I woul thrortheir childrenother board. Whan else would they do and then, of course it was altase inquiries yearslater, where a former Shenor avaiser revealedin two thousand and four that he actually told John Howen and shetousand and one that the children overboy claim might be ontrue. But Imean, of course, didn't matsh up by Theen because te on the election with that being oneof it Ma Major poitifal point. So it's al well and good Shaine orbelieving that all these countries oversas date treat refugees very well. We Australia does it to an especiallyAustra Wat. Am I talking outweone of the worst pleasures? Be Trading refiges,HMM yeah and I mean recently trump and the English prime inister BorusBartront have both been saying how wonderfulAustralia's laws are and how well the Australia deals with asylum, sekers andrefugees, and it's awful because, like you say, we are one of the worst countries. Soit's a international law that hat people seeking asylum ad, given asylum and Australia agreed to that law. Dbutthey don't pule through on it. So basically these people come seekingasylum and seeking refuge and we put them in a prison on an island and givethem limited food and limited resources and they're just sitting awoyt aroundwaiting to be processed, and sometimes they get deported back home to the place where they were runningfrom because they were seeking refude. Also we're not necessarily at the topof the list of countries taking in people like we might think we are. Thisis from wo thousand an ten and I haven't found anything more recent, but a refugees per thousand population. SoJordan comes in first with seventy two point: Nine people, refugees perthousand people living in Jordan. Australia comes in at sixty nine withone. So it's not that crazy may be different now, but that's yeah o think.We need to panic about it. Ialso yeah, there's, there's a quote inthe movie: The documentary where one of the interviewers says she's in southernItaly and she's. I think- and she says I M it's- the most pervasive kind ofcruelty that can be experienced against...

...a human being by depriving a person ofall forms of security, the most basic requirements of a normal life, butcruelly placing that person at the mercy of inhospitable countries that donot want to receive this them. You are rubbing them of all aspects that makehuman life tolerable and meaningful and yeah like he was saying tissitsthat dehumonizing thet other thing that we're so good at doing as humans ashome as Abians. Is We other people when we don't understand them, because it'ssafe, we're all about our tribe was safer than our trid and that's how wecan believe that they would do such a thing as through their babies,overboard to attract rescue? It's crazy. What's really happening! Is there beingstripped of e humanity? Refugees don't necessarily have rights, forexample in Turkey, the rules that Turkey has about refugees, don'tactually favor the refugees, thei favor, the government and Turkey enationalsyeah, so like who's standing up for them. Besides the UN, not really anyone yeah and just another thing. I wantedto mention is Maslo's hierarchy of needs, so it's ifyou didn't know what that is. It's like this concept that at the bottom of thepyramid, I guess is the most basic needs. A human house which is shelter.Food water want covering that's like the most basic needs you have and then,as you go up the pyramid, you need to get more complex, which is why, whenyou're privileged enough to have those things at the bottom of the pyramid,you can start thinking about. You know abstract concepts and religion andrhetorical thinking, whereas when you're a refugee struggling just tosurvive, you don't have time for those things, so you might not fit in the boxwhere you coul have a debate about why you should be allowed to enter acountry or whie it's normal for you, it's good. It's a good thing thatyou're seeking asylum. All these things are higher concepts that, when you're,just when you don't know where your next meals coming from eighty percentof people living in Gaza, eighty percent of garzens rely on humanitarian aid for survivalat's. Eighty percent of the people living in the GAZASTRIP in Westbank-that's they're, struggling just to get a meal, so they don't have time forhigher concepts about yeah, rhetorical thinking and arguments,and that kind of thing. So I think we need to put ourselves in heir shoes alittle bit, maybe because we have the privilege o be ab wl to do that.

Something that I was watching todaythat were saying like it takes something like six hundred thousanddollars to keep people on the island of Manu. I believe it was it'sone of the islands anyway tix hundred thousand Dola a day to to keep people there. So what if they spent that money onactually making viable, safe ways for them to seek assigning in our countryrather than spending all that money on a prison? One of the one of the doccos that I watched a man said a prison is more humane than this placebecause at least in a prison you know when you're getting out. You know whenit ends, and you know they- the camps a like filled with four times as many people as theyshould be. They're, not humane dwellings, and it's the separate families and yeahthey just they seem to destroy people, and it's it's a tactic to prevent more peoplefrom coming. Yes is there? Are there no good immigrant experiences in Australia so when people migrate from countriesyeah depending on the country, there are certain certain things they have to fulfill. Inorder to be able to migrate this and that's legal migration, yeah universityeducated generally, they can't have like what would be considered high riskillnesses or umgoing disabilities. They yeah. Basically, they have to tick anumber of boxes and it's about having skilled workers and people that cancome in and work. But so I don't know is that human, like.Is that a fair thing to offer so somebody who's fleeing a war brittlecountry right? Are they the same as a refuge? outhough immigrants Wyou can come through theproper channels versus people get on a boat? No no yeah, but people can seek asylumlike they might get a student peser. They can seek a sylum or if they get like a holiday visa,they can seek asylum, but either way they have to be getting a visa and whenyou're fleeing a country, that's red, Oldr with war, you don't necessarilyhave time to stop and get a Viea so yeah.

They certainly don't make it easy. Yeahyeah I'd be screwed. Yeah same I couldn't move to Canada. I wasn't allowed in past the healthcheck, so you wouldn't have so. Australia only wants us, because wewere born here, hos that feel yeah. How do we feel the Church's response to refuges hasbeen in our experience and in what we see? It's been self serving. That's my understanding. So the churchwill talk about these issues or make case for these issues or stand upagainst these issues if they have something to gain from itin general yeah. That's. That is a massive generalization and I'm moreaware of that. But it's not necessarily something becauseobviously there's a portion of people who have an ongoing invested pightagainst issues of injustice but in a general sense, it'll be like wedelegate one day to talk about this one issue and you should all do something about itand then they move on II haven't seen an active education given to people from a pulpit thatsuggests Tut. There needs to be some kind ofongoing change, because I found in church they very outreach focused. I baguellyremember something about a boat that had almost sunk or whatever off thecoastef Wa and it being talked about at Church and people seem prettyresponsive and wanting to do something to help. But I get that when you saychrunch, you don't necessarily mean literally the structure of the Chechemen, Christians in general. That's like the body of Christ yeah which, as a generalization,there's a whole like ar doning yeahhaus too dirty because it's complicatedg andit's not our job, but also we're going to vote for policies that and it's a behelp. Ety Cool so yeah church to be too too political, Ol, onway or the othertheyre, essentially ostracizing, potentially yeah ut, and this is anAmerica where they will jump on board and be like yeah, we'll bring y Thiflag into church and make it all thing, yeah good point. I just want to beaware that we're not just inducting the whole the whole church, because I knowthere's a lot of churches that, especially on the East Coast Lik incleansland that do a lot. The snating Church of Queenland that on purpose campaigns and avocates forasylum seekets. So they are, there are small pockets, so don't just wane Di isTome Mall. But no it's important because had to understand I'm quitebiter about everything yeah. Well I mean the Bible was Surl of displacedpeople yeah these relits look at them. They didn't have a home until Canan andthen late, one thousand nine hundred and forty eight. When Britain gave himthat little area and THEYV been...

...fighting with Palestine over it. SINCthen Soyeah Bible is full of displacedpeople, mostly the Israelatits, just not having a home having to wonderaround the Arobian penisula for eighty years. Have you seen the size of theland you could cross it by car in a couple hours in fsok yeah, it's nutshave you seen th the and they what eighty years wondering around that tinybit of land they must Hav just walked in circles, yeah to not find anothercaravan markings a boulder, a Nice Boulder, Sur, yeah I'll, always checkforever shuck his life. But what's the point like, what's the point of all thesuffering, there are children in refuge, camps suffering who don't deserve it?Who Haven't done anything wrong with their lives? They're, not old enough tohave done anything wrong, and here they are stuck in refug cams, the rest ofthe world isn't doing anything for them and there's supposed to be some greatGod, there who's allowing these things to happen. Or is he punishing someonelike how it doesn't the DOTS don't connect?It doesn't make sense yeah it ISO a vicous circle, like you,said the children. That's all IV know no god Dineat, yeah, they're, Gos thevebeen to so much srama yeah they're seeng their homes destroyed the sceine.Their families killed they've got all this trauma and they grow up, and Imean I'd want revenge. We just we don't give them a fightingchance yeah. Where is where is room for refigeand capitalism? If capitalism is you're worth what you can produce? Where isroom for a refugee in that so feel like some people might want tocall us out as virtuue signallers or as bleeding hearts who want to talk about the refugeee crisis,ignore the problems in our own backyard, Yadiadi aut up leading heartlibs.However, I think educating yourself is important and I think talking about thehard stuff like the global refugee crisis, which is so immense and so vastyou can't summ it up in a two and a half hour documenttrey, you can'tsummon up in a half hour podcast, but educating yourself in it and taking aninterest in issues that aren't in your day today life. I think that think it's important and it informsyour well view and it informs your date DA actions. So even if you're not outthere working for the UN helping to hand out food boxes in Vellain at arefugee camp or whatever, you can still have these conversations with people,you can still spread a bit of a wareness and the more educated you are. I feel thebetter choices you make in your life, so I think I think it's okay to be ableeding heart and get emotional, and I think it's okay to get educated and ifyou feel cool to action, that's even better, but if not that's okay, becausenot everyone has the capacity or the emotional bandwith or the time todevote to being hands on activist and-...

...and I think it's okay. So I just wantedto say that I think the whole, like the whole documentary is kind of a callto something yeah. It's not really a SECto actuion. That's a call to a response. Yeah some kind of ONS and, like I knowt for me personally in this, is like not on the podcast, but I feel way moreinformed about it than before, because I was looking at maps and stuff while Iwas watching it to try and see where things are geographically and I feellike, I could talk to a refuge and ask questions that being completelyignorant, and now I have a launch pad to then like Inbisgate, more stuff andwatch another documentary without going way as cereal you know, anyways do you think it wasintentionally done that there was no sort of narrative and that usually indocumentaries, you sort of follow so ong story from the beginning to the endand Wethi there was no person to there was o story to get behind it was thecollective story is a collective experience that we were witnessing, andI think part of his message was the enormity of it Mike Look it'severywhere. It's on all these continents. You can't escape it it'shere and there were a little bits of narrative like a bit with the Tiger in Gaza that somehow found its way inthere and was trapped in a a tiny cage in Gaza, and they went through thiswhole process to get it to South Africa and all this paperwork through the EUand everything- and it was obviously dypotomy like side by side of thepeople, trappedind guys other ere, those young women who were talking to Iwa way about how they Gaza is a prison.It's a huge prison, but it's still a prison in ther stuck there and theylove to be able to travel and see the world. They can't even see Israelbecause of all the blockades. They only have what they hear about the outsideworld and they they feel like they're in a prison and then just before thattheyd shown the tiger roaming around its cage, not and not on grass, not inthe jungle and then finally getting to be free. Meanwhile, these girls arestill trapped in Gaza, which is a prison of its own, so yeah. Hedefinitely found ways to weave a bit of a story or a narrative in differentsections without even realizing. I guess that he was telling us a story,but I think overall is just the enormity and the complexity that wasmeant to overwhelm yeah definitely achieved its purpose. Ifthat was the goal yeah for sure, and I think partly that lack ofnarrative was why it was hard to watch, but it was intended, it was yeahintentionally hard to watch because it shouldn't be something that entertainsyou yeah, it's not a popcorn movie. No, like here's a crisis, here'sanother one, here's another one wait you're still dealing with that one JK,here's another one! Oh by the way, did you know that Kenya has the largest refuge camp in the world that fivehundred thousand people have passed through here in he ot from likeSubsaharan, whatever, like just it'...

...just too much just too much. But youknow we have the privilege to be able to ten it off and for these people it's their life. An twenty six years is the average timethe refugee y. u will spend displaced twenty six years, that's enough timefor a kid to grow up them become morn radicalize yeah Yeaho toll you o your own cits bythe,be borne into it and leave with your own children. THAT'S IT I! In Lebanon, in a one kalometedistance, there are a hundred thousand people living Palestinians who havelived there for sixty years in a camp. Sixty years a hundred thousandPalestinians have been living in Lebanon as refugees in a one calomtumspace and they cal for their kids, don't goto school and thei kids that have been born and brought up ther and have kidsof their own. So it's Ta Life, it's it's just a new reality and and a lot of them will just neverget to a home or find home yeah. So guess, what's the takeaway, considering so overwhelming, if there'slittle bits and pieces, what Dil we take away from it? Human kind is funked, yeah, probably don't get. Betty human kind is kind of, or I mean Tish.Do you want to talk about. The election are still uncertain on WHO's on theelection aother conservative government, who doesn't care about children, lokingcages in America, obeclear yeah. So who knows that the UnitedStates kind of feels like it's on the brink of collapse right now, so whoknows where the nextrepiges will be coming from? I mean I always wanted togo back in time and watch the foll over on Sho t's good to know that I don'tactually have to go m gosh, jus tramp, ONA, fiddle andwyeah. The right now, like cities, haveboarded up their shops and they're waiting for the outcome of the electionand and then I guess, we'll see what happens and in time. Ty could be thentimes. I do think it's interesting that Turkey big like used to be the AtamanEmpires. Now the country of Turkey, Constantinople, birthplace ofChristianity, one both place but yeah the early church, Antioc yeah right there in the middle of Turkey, sothe first church came out of one of the worst human rights abusing countries ofall time. So we have a collective. Please don'tstop. I guess we have this new segment. We've been doing call, please don'tstop whe. We talk about the things that...

...we've been enjoying lately and I feellike we have the same response tonight and I'll take it away. So I guess thisis t a chance for us to acknowledge Iway Way and the fact that he is an ambassador for people that don'thave a voice. The fact that he is shedding light on our shoes that needto have lightshed on them and that he is taking it to the ground and getting his hands dirty. I guess and actually meeting people and seeingthese people for what they are, which humans with rites and deserving of loveand car. So yeah I way way. Please don't stop.Please tan't stop wethanks for doiing our tonight. It'sbeen a pretty full episo, but I think that we've all been alittle bit more educated by the situation. Yeah. No, definitely it's all about thesituation. Well by the situation I' yeah. It wasan intense episode. It was intense documentary to watch, but we dorecommend if you have the time to check it out. It's called human flow and it'savailable on Youtube. I think it's like four n ninety nine to rent. It's liketen bucks to buy it. I don't know if you'd want to buy it and watch gain.It's kind of in also get it on the Microsoft store box, or also the Google store, yeah good place, stor Lacore yeah, yeah yeah, so there's multiple ays you can get and we dorecommend it and like this, isn't sponsored or anything, but it is yeah.It's a good window into a world that you may already know about,but you may not have heard these stories about so yeah recommend it.Thank you for joining us, and this is Beck Tisian Anna signing off by yet brilliant. I Ha to say.

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